Sathya Sai Baba - The Anti Christ Incarnate

 

From jonathantrapman (Jonathan Trapman) on:

Sathya Sai Baba Discussion Club, message 547 and 548:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sathyasaibabadiscussionclub/

Date: 10/25/00 7:34 p.m.:

The Australian teleport incidence:

It is important to be very wary of handed down tales that get thrown around so often that they become (folk)law(ore)!
It was only a few months ago that under orders from the Sai inner circle a group of Australians brought a job lot of Seiko watches from Oz for the sleight of hand distribution of that old magician. It was untimely inconvenient that they were arrested at Rome airport and charged with smuggling them into Europe, on their way to India. Especially when they were such good Thai copies. Ah well I suppose he will have to depend on the good old South Indian dime store suppliers to make up the shortfall. As for bilocation ask some of those in the know of the lookalike stand ins. They have them on standby especially as the old man has now been getting so sick he's not able to do his darshan dance with heart attacks and other sicknesses getting the better of him.

I do get the impression that there are so many people who are so keen and ready to hang their miracle happenings on an old tired act that still purports to be something special. With that sort of energy handed to him by all the devotees that have been around him he sure is able to conjure up some pretty impressive credentials that one could very well be seen as evidence of the divine. But I personally do not and never shall allow myself the dubious pleasure of condoning a two faced approach to life and actions on the manipulated assumption that some powers and happenings are too far beyond our understanding to argue with. Many awesome "siddhis" are able to be performed by adepts but as has been repeated several times on this forum, siddhis have always been the double edged sword and a positive distraction on the path toward self realization. They must never be held up as proof of worthiness. Look to the actions first they speak the loudest, all else pales into insignificance

How many times does the guy have to bugger, sodomise, get blown, destroy beliefs, ruin by crass bad advice and downright be cruel, rude and insensitive before he is considered to be 'evil', 'the bad guy' or just 'The Anti Christ incarnate'. My description of these labels are flowery maybe but we all have our own ideas of the bogey men. My point is this guy has shown down the years that he cares little for many individuals and that ain't holy, spiritual or any other act of pure intention.
The stories of the ancient seers and masters are not appropriate to quote today as things are completely changed within the context of morals exhibited. We neither know anyway whether these tales were metaphor, reality or dream. If anyone could believe that because this guy is sooo holy, he is able to play these 'leelas' with us, then I am Father Christmas!!

OK - so if we take the point of view that all these things that are happening to us are what we need and that he knows what we need and therefore we let him do these things to us we might as well be dead. We might as well have given our good judgement, self determination and inquiring mind over to this "wanker" ( a particular English expression for someone who abuses himself and others!). I don't care what people believe, if it makes them see themselves in a more expanded way. If it helps them with the struggle toward self realization fine - but realize that all this projected energy (devotion) just feeds his loathsome habits and power crazed ego. I do not wish to give any energy of acceptance to ANY body who deems it ok to commit such acts at the same time as state that they are the divine manifestation of LOVE incarnate. I would be happier buying potions from a snake oil salesman - at least that would give me a bellyful of laughs.
(Cont)

Message 548

Date: 10/25/00 7:35 p.m.

The carry on in Puttaparthi and the other places is a sick circus of hoodwinking. The number of people who were and are at the center of the organization who know and admit to this charlatan getting up to his lewd tricks is proof enough for most people I would have thought let alone the first hand testaments that I have witnessed. Anil Kumar himself, the respected translator of the old dog, admitted in conversation (when his family were out of earshot) that he has known for a long time of the old paedophile's activities but when asked why he did not come out with this knowledge replied that a) It was too dangerous and would have meant signing his own death warrant and b) he is very near retiring age and not prepared at this stage to make his own family suffer.

I don't hold it against anyone if they wish to carry on believing this guy is God, divine or whatever other cosy epithet they put on him, but there is absolutely nothing in my experiences with this joker to put him anywhere higher than well under the surface of the old sewage processing plant a few miles down the road from here.

He may very well have a dharma in this life, but it ain't something that I particularly want to hang around. As for actual proof of the heinous goings on in his little room, all I can say is wait and see. Proof there will be.

I suppose it would be too soon to ask whether we might change the subject or at least expand it somewhat!! I feel that I am going round in circles a bit does anyone else?

Love and light

Jonathan

The answer from Hariom

Message 556

Date: 10/26/00 1:08 a.m.

Hello Jonathan:

You mentioned Anil Kumar in your message. Did you hear this from Anil Kumar?
If possible, for the purposes of authenticity, could you give details of when, where and to whom Anil Kumar expressed these sentiments?
Anil Kumar was spreading the message of Sathya Sai Baba in April/May of this year.

I would be interested in your reaction to Larsson's account of his introduction to Sathya Sai Baba. (If need be, please see message 507.)
To my knowledge, Larsson has not repudiated his account of his introduction to SSB.

It would also be interesting if David Bailey could go through his script promoting Sai Baba in the past and give his current views on his talks acclaiming Sai Baba and his miracles. You have mentioned that you are a good friend of Bailey. I hope you have some insight or can at least obtain some information.

Larsson made a deeper impression on me than Bailey, since his experiences were very powerful. I do not recall clearly much of Bailey's talk. However, I recall the following anecdote - Bailey was set to play the piano in front of a huge crowd assembled in the presence of SSB. Bailey found to his utter dismay that the piano was hopelessly out of tune. His heart sank and he looked pleadingly at Baba who gave a reassuring look. Within seconds, the piano was in tune without manual intervention. Bailey was so sure about the details of this incident, and held it as yet another piece of powerful evidence of Baba's powers.
(He also talked about his introduction to SSB - he heard a trucker talk about SSB appearing to folks in a convoy of trucks carrying aid in Bosnia.)
Did Bailey simply fabricate the piano story and other stories to promote the hype or is he a person who is easily swayed and misled? I wish there was a section in The Findings which meticulously dealt with each story in Bailey's prior script(/highlights of his books?) and provided an explanation from his current perspective. This attempt would have garnered greater receptivity to the document. I acknowledge that Bailey provided details regarding manifestations of rings, etc.

I believe it is important that the WHOLE TRUTH should be uncovered, and not only the convenient part. It is worthwhile to have a honest and open discussion about the inconvenient elements of the evidence rather than snootily dismissing them. Such an open approach is best suited to reaching the minds of folks such as pax gabriel who are wrestling with contradictions between their personal experience and the information flung freely across the Internet. Many folks do not have direct access to reliable people who have personal knowledge of the evidence on the sexual allegations. Please remember that if just statements on the Internet from strangers are sufficient to convince folks, these discussion clubs would have shut down several months ago. Folks are looking for ways to make sense of all of their experience. The club can help by providing a patient and compassionate hearing.

I look forward to your response, particularly regarding Anil Kumar. Thanks for your heartfelt contribution to this forum.

Hariom

Jonathan's reply

Message 564

Date: 10/26/00 12:00 p.m.

Hi HariOm,

In reply to your questions:

David Bailey had a telephone conversation with Kumar a few weeks ago when he said these things. He made it amply apparent that he was in the know and feeling uncomfortable about it. Like so many in these positions they are stuck between giving up their livelihood and speaking the truth. Phyllis Crystal has the same dichotomy where she says that to give up sb is putting her whole HC work into jeopardy, That may or may not be. We all have to make the decisions from wherever we come from and I know well where my trust has been. In fact the person who introduced us into the organization was a major act that drew in many people in the West to the sb cult. Her charisma and charm gave many the feeling of the right intentions of this guy. When I asked her directly whether she knew about these allegations and goings on she replied yes and that she had known for some years. She chose to ignore it and didn't see anything wrong in encouraging young people to come and be abused by him. That was more shocking to hear than than sb's goings on.

David explained also to me earlier that the reality of what happened with the piano experience was, seen in the light of rational hindsight, not a miracle at all, just logical. The Rachmaninov is in Gminor and as he thumped it out on the dodgy Indian piano the strings became more and more out of tune. His horror was because the Debussy piece that followed was a lot quieter and would not have been able to be disguised in any way as well as the loud renditioning of Rachmaninov. So praying for a miracle he launched into Debussy. This piece is in Dflat major -effect - melodious and comfortable on the ear. Explanation : for the non musical - Rachmaninov is mostly played on the black notes thus knackering those strings. In the Debussy it is mostly played on the white notes, which were not 'bashed' in the previous piece!! Result miracle or what?

Connie's story in Sri Lanka has been repudiated by him subsequently. He has said that he made the chap fit the description for his own sake.

Pax Gabriel, David's enthusiastic endorsement of sb is nothing other than what most of us have done at the height of our convictions that here was a true saviour, redeemer, god incarnate figure( choose your own title) We all have waxed lyrical about our enthusiasms at some time or other. When we allow ourselves to see the wood from the trees we can only be expected to put the record straight as we see it and feel it. The lesson in so much of this misaligned perception and interpretation is that it is our responsibility and ours alone to really understand what really is being put across/ fed to us. This will enable us to not go off on fantasies or to be rudely awakened at a later date. However since life will always offer up these challenges because they will always contain the seeds for our growth, we need to be vigilant, questioning and full to the brim with discrimination.

Perceptions are really the points that we need to address. They can be covered over with so much assumption. As a good and wise friend many years ago told me. Assumptions are dangerous things. If one assumes something happens - You tend to make an ASS out of U and ME!! Wise indeed.

David is an extraordinary concert classical pianist. He has played for the Royal family privately, amongst others. That I consider fame! But I also know David as a very modest man away from his stage persona. I cannot comment on the twins but just to say that whether they are wheelchair bound some of the time or not in the course of many mysteries it does not rate too high up the list, I have to say.
Continued

Message 465

Date: 10/26/00 12:00 p.m.

The list may be interested to know that after a long investigation, the UK Sunday Telegraph is printing a 5/6 page exposé of sb this Sunday. If anyone outside of the UK wants a copy by email or stuff for their websites please let Shahgols know of your intention and he may deem it suitable for me to email such info forward.
The Sunday Telegraph is a top broadsheet (not tabloid) and one of the authors of the piece is an ex devotee journalist who works at the paper. He has also I believe written a book on his own experiences during his infatuation period. I would also draw your attention to a Vedic astrological reading that was done on sb's chart and it supports everything that so many people are reporting about this charlatan. If anyone has the website address, as I believe some on this board are aware of this stuff it would be helpful to offer it for those interested.

If anyone was upset by my turn of phrase in the last offering,I humbly apologize. It was written with a sense of spirited lightness and somewhat tongue in cheek with the turn of phrase. That is what comes of writing these things off late at night. I don't have any anger or hate toward sb. Just great sadness that he chooses to try and cheat so many for his own ego and selfish returns. My anger is at that attitude that is so prevalent these days in so many parts of society. In politics, business and elsewhere. When there are so many so called 'leaders' promoting this way of being without moral or ethics is it a wonder that the state of the world is in such a parlous condition. Weasel words and honeyed promises a golden world do not make!!! That is what makes me draw my sword of truth!! So there.

Love and light everyone

Jonathan