Testimony from Keenanalethia
From keenanalethia on:
Sathya Sai Baba Discussion Club, message 838, 856, 897, 898, 1171 and 1323:
Date: 11/8/00 3:38 a.m.
I am so busy with my work and life that I never seem to get enough time to regularly include this message board in some of my thoughts. I have noticed it has gotten more active lately which is nice to see! It is much more intelligent and open-minded, open-hearted as far as "discussion", it seems, than the other yahoo board.
I do wish to share my views with any about my time as a devotee and my experiences with SB, my personal miracles, and what have you. My intermittent interactions don't represent my lack of interest, but a lack of time and energy.
I am sure that most of you know I have an information website up because of my desire to help protect children and reveal to devotees and others Sai Baba's dark side for their own discernment.
I wish all success in your search for truth and wish all to know that I do not consider myself "anti-Sai". I am, however, "pro-discernment". I do not hate Sai Baba. I am so grateful to his reflection of my Self and love him now by working to expose him. Justice IS unconditional love, and I cannot stand injustice. Finding out my greatest teacher was a fraud was the shock of my life. I had been utterly, totally reeled in and deceived from the start. But even that deception helped me greatly, so what gives...? The world deserves to know the other side of Sai Baba, and he deserves to be found out, so that the molestations and lies will no longer be empowered by devotees' love and surrender to him.
I do have many thoughts and wish I had time to write more, I am inspired by the posts here, the people here.
By the way, DK said I flat out said my dog is my guru... a misinterpretation of me saying he is my teacher as ALL ARE MY TEACHER. Yes my dog is extra-special to me, we have a spiritual bond. I think dogs can asses situations and characters quite clearly, and can be more aware than we are as humans, especially, it seems, psychically. No wonder they have served as "guard dogs" and loving companions for humans for a long, long time. We as a species would not be nearly as advanced technologically and spiritually as we are now without the loving SERVICE of dogs and horses, and all animals.
GOD IS WITHIN ALL... maybe this is why the Cosmic setup, so that such a focus on another as "higher" could be removed and we can stand in our own "inner high". A built in self-destruct element in all teachers, including the one who claims to be THE teacher? I am curious about this idea "teacher" in a macro and micro world.... what really is a "teacher" and what do we expect to find in a "teacher", perfection in every way? And what is perfection? God teaches us through everyone, but we have to learn to listen and be open. I am kind of just thinking out loud here. Any thoughts? Have a nice day, everyone...
Peace to all,
Date: 11/8/00 2:07 p.m.
I have forgiven him. This happens on a personal level.
First, people become aware of it, then they forgive, if they can.
I am helping with spreading awareness of a situation. That is the purpose of my website.
Yes, I did apply a hard process to disprove beyond a doubt that he is not "God", to my satisfaction. I did not give up on him easily.
I am "doing this" for the sake of awareness, and I am not doing it selfishly or out of ego. Sometimes you just know that you have to do something, and this is definitely one of those things based on my morality. Maybe I "fail to convince" because I am also accepting of people's heart-choice, I do not care to push a lot in "discussion" especially because for people to really decide in themselves anyway, they need to look for themselves, listen for themselves, and decide alone.
As far as my dog, yes I know I connected two different statements. I am not sure "much later" is accurate either, depending on what you mean. If I said something earlier and later, and you read both, I still said both. If you aim to embarrass, go for it, but it will only reflect on you, not me. I just stated why, I did say both, in a STREAM of conversation, yes in different statements.
You do bring up "mistakes" a lot, I have noticed.
Sathya is my dog's name, named after SB. He teaches me a lot through our friendship, he guides me in dreams and teaches me about dogs, the symbol. Guru=teacher, sometimes I use these words interchangeably, in some situations. I "dared say" he might have taught me more than Sai Baba, just to make a point about all being teachers, if we are open to it.
Sathya Sai Baba WAS one of my greatest teachers.
I may not remember every exact word I have said in the exact order, but neither am I going to obsess about checking my old messages out of fear and making sure there are absolutely no misunderstandings or subtle differences because you threaten to "embarrass me" when I reference those IDEAS. What's embarrassing? I accept that I make mistakes all the time. Let's not get caught up on words, if we can help it, but focus on the ideas.
If you want to focus on that, fine. But why don't you just ask more questions instead of so often "pointing" to what you think I am based on my limited postings and your limited view of me? I have tried to stop pointing at you too. Can you please stop also?
I want to ask you more questions, but right now I am busy answering these details you keep pointing out so I can feel like we can at least talk and reach some level of at least seeing each other clearly.
By the way, what does Daso 'smi mean? It sounds nice. :)
Date: 11/8/00 9:43 p.m.
Dear Phoenixboy, I will answer your questions from my perspective, based on my 10 years as a devotee after many miracles and healings and a 5 week stay in the ashram in 1990.
#1. About the "spell" of Sai Baba. Well, when he first appeared to me in the woods holding my letter (I thought), this was the "clencher" miracle for me, along with several others that I have shared in "My devotee Experience" on my website.
Besides many healing and uplifting experiences I had connected to his image (with my focus, drive to improve my life and belief in him), I felt the true impact of his "spell" or brainwashing while in the ashram, especially the first instance we had deep eye contact. Since I believed he was God already, he could see this (sitting with my hands in a cupped position in front of my heart), he used his Charisma (which I do consider a gift of his) through his eyes. First he reflected the "unconditional love" aspect that he says he is, then he began the controlling glances, all timed perfectly to my inner experience, which is a very important factor. He gave me a lot of personal attention, although I never did have an interview. He was giving and genuinely helped me (although it must be noted that I was at rock-bottom and had a severe case of bulimia nervosa), but then used my surrender to him to control me with powerful looks of "obey only me" right at the perfect times (when I was thinking limited thoughts, feeling limited, etc.).
This could show omniscience, but rather shows psychic development and a drive to control others using his powers. The line of discernment is of course, his pedophile and fraudulent behavior, which none should believe outright, I don't think, unless they have adequate proof for themselves personally. This behavior, if accepted, clearly demonstrates an ego-based being, not a truly God-realized being. Thus his idea of "I am God" must be coming from a place of ego and not the "I am God" that could come from true spiritual development and purity.
I have so much more to say on this, and I know it is not adequately address the issue, but I offer that there are many who can give their personal experiences also of manipulation and the "spell" so to speak that you are asking about... Also I think you would find interesting those posts I mentioned earlier today, that I discovered quite by accident. I think also Sanjay will find them interesting.
I have some free time now so will try to also answer your other questions from my experience and view.
Date: 11/8/00 10:18 p.m.
Okay, by the way, thanks for making me think here! You bring up what I think are very crucial issues that cannot be glossed over. I am not at all providing adequate info to eliminate the "gloss effect", but that takes far more information from many sources than is obviously possible here. From my experience:
#2 I answered briefly already, and I also recommend again that you read those posts I mentioned earlier, they address questions 1 and 2 of your questions in this message in a very sattvic way (better than I can do!).
#3. I have VERY limited perspective on this and I would suggest that you ask Hari Sampath about it. From what I gather, the Org core members almost all know that he is a fraud and protect him for their benefit and also maybe out of fear (murder, anyone? there are several news articles on murders and suspicious disappearances connected to the ashram, IN the ashram and connected to Sai Baba himself). Again, if you wish for more than my limited opinion, ask Hari, he has been there.
#4. I don't know. I stopped reading that long ago, but did subscribe briefly and it fed my hunger on some levels. I would not be surprised though if it does not show integrity.
Anything feeds us once were "hooked" on our idea that he is God Incarnate! Except of course, anything contradictory to the image we held as devotees. This is where one's ability to still be open comes into play, and one's ability to at least admit that "it is possible I was deceived and so are millions". Then each can honestly say they are deciding for themselves, but I think it takes a serious investigation to really "decide for ourselves" and not just let our high-held beliefs dictate our choices without looking. it takes guts to challenge our own foundation, if that's what it is. The power of the mind is supreme over our reality, this experience definitely taught me that. As we think, so we are, whether or not our thinking is clear or impaired or not. I learn this lesson over and over, especially awakened through this spiritual deception. All of us almost always wear colored glasses over our eyes (vision), but I guess the goal would be to wear clear lenses if we can, so our vision is truly clear (inner and outer)which only happens through effort and awareness, I believe. Not an easy task, but a noble one to at least attempt.
I hope you seek until you are truly satisfied, in your heart. Blind devotion is a famous term for good reason, because it lacks just that- good reasoning. I certainly lost reason (and had never learned discernment) after my positive experience, but have since gained it back like cleansing floodwaters.
I am just speaking my mind and heart and none of this is personal towards you, Phoenix, but inspired by your questions and the ideas they raise!
Thanks for the opportunity and I hope I don't bore you or offend you! That is not my intention :)
I agree with you, there is so much more to see than most of us actually know or have experienced. I think we should always be humble this way, or we risk may things. May we all keep "seeing" and experiencing and asking questions.
Blessings and Love,
Date: 11/22/00 7:04 p.m.
Greetings, I am not sure I have talked with you before.
I am a former devotee, but really, now after getting over it I am not 'anti' per se, just working for people to be aware of the situation with the sexual molestations.
"I have read of some American devotee sending a letter which included pages from her son's diary to various people. It sounded genuine to me, and I can see no reason for her making it up."
and I felt that I should share that although I did not read the form letter sent out by the mother of that victim, I read his hand-written statement about 2 separate incidents of obvious sexual molestation in September ( I think )1999. This was the first and very shocking account that was given to me by my long-time neighbor here who ran a S.S.B. center for 15 years. This was shocking enough, and started the ball rolling for me to 'get to the bottom' of this, to find the Truth for myself.
The funny thing is, a good friend of mine was also sexually violated years ago and tried to tell me about it, but I wrote it off as the 'kundalini adjustment' so many devotees 'hear of'...
In all fairness, I think it serves each of us and the Whole if we do at least investigate as much as we can the accusations, and talk to real people, because we are investing so much into Sai Baba as devotees. Even with our own positive experiences, and me with mine, how can I deny the extremely negative experiences of others, and of young boys in particular?
Also, after seeing the videos, and even more the recent ones, it confirms to me that this being Sai Baba is not who he says he is- and it seems even more not at all like he says he is.
My high school friend has offered his email for verification, and I have a list of many others for sincere inquiries. I do not wish to break people's hearts, it seems a tragic but even more an empowering consequence of this information at times. Please feel free to email me, anyone here, if you would sincerely like to contact for yourself many of those victims and their family members, and those former devotees who know the victims or have witnessed the 'sleight-of-hand' materializations.
May all those who celebrate Thanksgiving enjoy in the abundance that we have, and hopefully aspire to share that also with the world. I wish everyday were a holiday, because truly each is so full of blessings, if we can only recognize and embrace the opportunity each day!
Take care, Maverickdreamer, I am sure your God-self leads the way :)
Love and Light,
Date: 12/4/00 3:27 a.m.
I have wanted to discuss this for some time, if anyone is interested. It was mentioned recently and I do think these mental actions are crucial to the issue here.
In my understanding, discernment is receiving what is already there, and using our senses to decide what it is.
In the same manner, I think judgement is more of an active, 'putting something onto' something or someone. It seems discernment is more likely to be accurate than judgement, depending on how accurately we can perceive, how unbiased we can sense.
I think it is very important for each to DISCERN the QUALITY of energy in Sai Baba. As a devotee, the only way for me to appropriately discern with Sai Baba was to find out about BOTH SIDES of him. I was brainwashed, I had created my own experience to back up the illusion. The reality shock of other's personal experiences of molestation, etc. on the internet (after the initial information) gave me the 'other side' of the picture, as much as I could find. This act, of allowing in 'the other side' of the situation gave me the power to discern, finally, who SB really is, without all my conditioning, beliefs filtering the information. After my own idea of who I thought he was was removed so that I could view him from a neutral place, it became obvious in the act of discerning WHAT WAS THERE, that I had been wrong. My biggest lesson in discernment ever.
As a devotee, I lacked rationality with Sai Baba, it 'wasn't necessary' because I went on my own experience and the other positive experiences of others. I only wanted to 'do good, see good, be good'. But I also want to know the Truth, I always have. I was willing to admit that I MAY HAVE been wrong, long enough for the illusion to fall and pure perception to replace it...
I think Sai Baba is a huge lesson in spiritual discernment. I am grateful for this lesson, however bizarre it is! It has balanced my thinking a lot by being a huge 'reality shock' about 'appearances' at a foundation level. I am still a very faithful person in God, but I have a much greater rationality and awareness of illusions now, and especially an awareness of spiritual frauds. There is no feeling quite like spiritual betrayal.
How do others here define in their minds the difference between discernment and judgement? At a basic level? And how has it affected your decisions about who Sai Baba is?
Thanks for sharing your views, all.